Arteries don't retract a huge distance when cut. After a while there was a dull ache around the bite, but that was probably around an hour after she was bitten. That being said, snake bite kits are silly and do not work. Don't use a tourniquet, cut the bite, or suck out the venom if you're bitten by a venomous snake. If you have a phone call for medical attention and stay put -- if you have to move a little bit get a big stick to use as a crutch and stay off it. 2. Does anyone here have experience with snake bites? Many snakes you encounter are going to be nonvenomous, and it would be very uncommon for a snake to actively seek you out to bite you. What do you recommend doing when you're on a remote trail and you get bitten by a snake? Then we finished the day with six different moulage scenarios where tourniquets were used to control bleeding from everything from workplace accidents to gunshot wounds. If you're running with friends and one of you gets bit, carry or support the victim so they can immobilize the affected area while making it back to your car/your house/etc. Thanks all! It's a diminishable skill that most people get wrong at first (it's not hard, just awkward), so take 10 minutes and practice every year or so. If a snake does bite you, look out for the symptoms of a venomous bite. Ive joined Reddit a few weeks ago, stoked to read all the different topics. 5.) At least now I know to immobilize the wound, keep it below the heart and get to a hospital asap. Vomiting, blurred vision, tingling of the limbs, and sweating may result. • Do not apply a constriction band or tourniquet with a belt or rope as that will cut off the circulation. Toxicon 1998;36: 805–808. 7.) • If a victim is unable to reach medical care within 30 minutes, a bandage, wrapped two to four inches above the bite, may help slow venom. It's also a good idea to brush up on the poisonous snakes in your region. /facepalm. If the player character possesses a tourniquet when he/she becomes poisoned by an animal, the tourniquet will be automatically applied to counter the poison. There's a big drop off in effectiveness between a proper TQ and one you make yourself with improvised materials. Rattlesnake Bite— Tourniquet or Not? Bringing a Sharpie and taking notes definitely get me thinking. Or drink that mess. With a coral snake bite, the affected area should remain below heart level to slow the spread of its more potent venom. I wear a CAT in a NAR rigid TQ holder every day and I plan on buying a couple more of the holders so I don't have to take it off of my duty belt for casual wear. CORNISH: That's one of the listeners who wrote us about this, Tony Daly-Crews of Buckeye, Ariz. Tunneler bite can be just as bad. Thanks, well worth the read. The standard snakebite scene in many movies shows the victim applying a tourniquet to the limb and then cutting the wound and sucking out the venom. The best thing to do if you get but by a snake is to NOT panic, and try to write down details or take a photo of the snake. Amaral CF, Campolina D, Dias MB, Bueno CM, Rezende NA. The United States has about 21 species of venomous snakes, which include 16 species of rattlesnakes, two species of coral snakes, 1 species of cottonmouth (or water moccasin), and two species of copperhead.At least one species of venomous snake is found in every state except Hawaii and Alaska.. I'll update wording to clarify. Tourniquet injury in a Papuan snakebite victim. That being said, snake bite kits are silly and do not work. DON'T use old first aid remedies: no tourniquet, no ice, no electric shocks, no cutting the wound and sucking out the venom. Getting bitten by a snake, whether your running or hiking or whatever, can be deadly -- especially if you're by yourself and miles from road/civilization. Do not use a cold compress on the bite. Arteries don't retract a huge distance when cut. Cookies help us deliver our Services. View Article PubMed/NCBI Google Scholar 23. I live in Arizona and frequent desert trails. Wrap Around Limb. Which did you prefer? It will suck and the Antivenom is expensive as hell. If you can take a picture or describe the snake, that's good but not essential. The best thing to do if you get but by a snake is to NOT panic, and try to write down details or take a photo of the snake. 4.) Pay attention to the color markings, the rattle (or lack thereof) and the shape of the head. Research and modern products have changed the guidance around when you should use a tourniquet so the bar is much lower. Do not use a tourniquet. A common sign of a bite from a venomous snake is the presence of two puncture wounds from the animal's fangs. Pit vipers are the most common venomous snakes in the United States and include all rattlesnakes. If you're going to be in a situation where you are alone and far away from anything, do carry a phone in case of emergency. I live in Los Angeles and have been running a lot of trails lately. It's unfortunate just how much dangerously-wrong info is out there, especially among prepping circles. Mark the leading edge of tenderness/swelling on the skin and write the time alongside it. I always carry a phone with me in case of an emergency, however the reception in the Santa Monica and San Gabriel Mountains is pretty bad. If neurotoxic venom has been injected, and you are certain no medical care or antivenom is available, there is very little that can be done. and private medical organizations offer free bleeding control classes, I'm not sure if it's okay to post links here, but you can find classes near you at https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search or https://www.stopthebleedday.org I'd highly recommend it to anyone who wants to be better prepared. Sounds like calling the park head quarters, park ranger or 911 would be the best thing to do if you're alone on a remote trail. They cover what you'd learn in a local class and bust some of the sticky myths. Seek medical attention if you are not experienced with identifying snakes. Some of my runs are with friends, others are solo, sometimes miles away from any road or home. She didn't notice herself get bitten, she saw the bite on herself sometime after. I appreciate everyone's responses here. The first symptom of a pit viper bite is usually pain, followed by redness and swelling within 20 to 30 minutes. There might be special circumstances with extremely dangerous snakes), It causes the venom to fester in the limb and causes extensive damage, Also venom extractors do not have any evidence to back up that they work at all, Do not try to catch the snake to identify it in North America all except one snake species require the exact same anti venom. Not that I've ever screamed like a little girl jumping over them before... Tl;dr If you are going into nature use the buddy system and pay attention because you are in a lot of trouble if you get bit by a poisonous snake. My tribe, Twisted Hairs, had a better way than Antivenom, if you act fast. At that point, you can try to keep calm and walk it out to civilization/cell service, buy a GPS emergency transceiver and be ready to push the SOS button, hope you didn't get envenomated, or just be diligent when running single-track solo. Don't run, and don't use those snake bite kits. Do not give the person any medications unless directed by a doctor. In Australia all our snakes use the lymphatic system to kill you so as long as you use compression bandages and stay put you'll be fine. For the most part, if you aren't elderly, very young, or have a compromised immune system, you have an hour or two to get to a hospital. Try using your off hand, pretend a limb is trapped, etc. It will help with identifying it. Learning and sharing information to aid in emergency preparedness as it relates to disasters both natural and man-made. Additionally, he mentioned that a tourniquet to isolate the venom may be a bad idea, because some say it concentrates the venom into one area of the body and do massive damage, instead of diluting it throughout the body. Tourniquet ineffectiveness to reduce the severity of envenomating after Crotalus durissus snake bite in Belo Horizonte Gerais, Brazil.Toxicon 1998; 36:805-806. It is a myth that arteries retract a large distance and that you should use a tq on a snake bite. This may result in redness, swelling, and severe pain at the area, which may take up to an hour to appear. Austere medicine teachers put together this beginner's guide to tourniquets. Reduce your snake bite risk as well. Only 0.4% of non-professional cases end up with amputation. I ended up choosing the SWAT-T. Some snake bites are “dry bites” with no venom injection, so they may be survivable without professional treatment. Between the classes I've taken in the last year and the shooting last year on Oct. 1, it's becoming harder and harder to justify leaving the house for any reason without a TQ on my belt. Wash the bite with soap and water. While just two snake bite deaths were reported in the state since 2010, one in 2013 and one in 2015, around a fourth of those who sought assistance through the GPCC needed the antidote. I've seen tons of snakes but never had one strike at me. I guess you're more likely to infect yourself or make it worse, and they aren't great at getting venom out. I'm glad it's changing. I did a stop the bleeding course from the Dutch Red Cross and the one giving the course was or still is (forgot) ambulance medical. https://cms.bleedingcontrol.org/class/search. With the medicine we have today you should be fine as long as you can make it to a place with cell signal and get an paramedic. This was posted in the hiking subreddit. A couple of months ago I took a six-hour traumatic bleeding control class from North American Rescue. Snakes can't hear you, but they can feel you, and the pounding of your feet might be enough to scare it off the trail if it's sunning. Its sometimes tricky when running fast downhill, but you mentioned several good points to keep in mind. An admin of a prepper FB group said this morning: "using a tourniquet guarantees amputation!" I am super wary when I'm solo on infrequently traveled single track and I hope for the best while keeping a sharp eye out for anything that looks snake-like. While I have a general idea of what to do, it is reassuring to see others agree with best practices. Press J to jump to the feed. We hear from medical experts the RATs should be avoided due to the design. If you're running in bush regularly learn the proper snake bite treatment technique for your snakes, being a phone or a friend is basically it. Thanks a lot for your detailed response, great info. Do NOT do any of the following: Do not pick up the snake or try to trap it. Wow didn't realize it was that expensive, that's crazy!! Same thing with running to get help. Snake species. I recently got a CAT Gen 7 from North American Rescue with the storage case/pouch still need to learn to use it properly but hot damn just holding the CAT you can tell it's made to last. How important is it to identify the snake? Tourniquet: Bad advice for a snake bite Share this: Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) Click to share on Reddit (Opens in new window) Click to … How do I assess a snake bite patient and tell a difference between the various types of venom? That was the best Amazon review I've ever read. Some FAQ: Tourniquets are not taught as a last resort anymore. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Both thin your blood, which is also what the snake venom does. Don't listen to people who say using a tourniquet = losing a limb. Take a few minutes while relaxing on the couch today and learn a valuable new skill. March 31st is Stop the Bleed Day, many fire dept. You might have been taught the old cowboy trick of applying a tourniquet and using a blade to cut the bite wound in order to suck out the poison. If I'm going out hiking or running I always make sure I have a way to get help. Snakebite Tourniquet - cuts off the venom, no need to scavenge glands and blood. All are pretty shitty options compared to running without snakes, but that's life. There are several issues with tourniquets for snake bite: It's likely too late anyway The venom will spread rapidly though your system (as Weda says, the lymphatic system is the main carrier, not blood). pmid:9655642 . It will help with identifying it. There are no long term effects, and they're not painful. I wouldn't trust my life to a snake bite kit. Either a friend or a phone. The ability to be used for sprains is great too, I'm far more likely to severely injure myself due to a sprain in a remote area than suffer major bleeding. I'd be dead in minutes from the adrenaline pumping the venom straight to my heart. Outside of that, bring your cell phone, if you can--especially if you're alone. He found the bitemarks and quickly fastened a tourniquet two inches above the wound, using a friend’s belt. Only 0.4% of non-professional cases end up with amputation. You should instead call 911, remove any tight clothing or jewelry, and move as little as possible. I think I'm way more likely to use it on someone else though. Just out of curiosity where did you find out about the NAR first aid courses? I'm always trying to advocate the use of TQs, I'm pretty active in the firearms community, and it's starting to catch on, but for a long time, it wasn't "cool" to post a TQ in your Instagram EDC flex. Snakes are massive scaredey cats and the biggest cowards even if you stand on them I've found. A tourniquet was in place just below the right knee. The chances of you getting a tourniquet on before this has happened is minuscule. However by today's medical standards you've got a good chance if you seek medical attention immediately. 1 The sequence of clinical events though simulates delayed envenomation of cobra bite; important differences are bleeding from the puncture wounds, muscle spasms and no evidence of flaccidity. The Red Cross first aid advice for snake bites is: • Wash the bite with soap and water. Here's what I've always been told by rangers and trail runners alike: If you're alone, the best practice is to calmly walk to a place where you can get a ride to a hospital while keeping the bitten area below your the level of your heart (it'd probably be your leg, so no worries there, eh?). I would say the best thing you can do to avoid getting bitten is to be aware -- look where you're running, stay away from the sides of the trail that might be shaded or rocky. ... saved a local elderly woman from a venomous snake bite … Also, this might be hard in the moment, but the more information you have on the type of snake the easier it's going to be for doctors to treat it, so try and get a good glimpse of whatever bit you. If you get bitten, there's not much you can do yourself other than just immobilize the wound (brace it with your shirt and two sturdy sticks) and be sure to keep it below the heart i.e. I fully agree that avoiding snake bites is the best thing to do. Any advice is much appreciated. Rattle snakes will let you know. A 10-year-old boy presented after a snake bite to the right calf. But the topic is back in force with the Stop The Bleed campaigns and the push to put more tourniquets in public places / increase civilian training. TQs are for limbs only, and you should avoid the joints. If a rattlesnake bites my leg I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be able to stay calm. I've been rattled at up in the Sespe Wilderness, but never down in the Santa Monicas or San Gabriels, though I have seen a few California King Snakes and Racers. Cheers to being lucky and safe in the LA wilderness. Trevett AJ(1), Nwokolo N, Watters DA, Lagani W, Vince JD. None of these "treatments" help and most of them make things worse. Do not attempt to suck the venom out by mouth. Age below 5 years, activity at/after the bite (playing/walking), no tourniquet, a longer bite to ASV time, presence of fang marks, neurotoxic envenomation and need for additional ASV dose were independent predictors of poor outcome in pediatric snakebite envenomation. Don't listen to people who say using a tourniquet = losing a limb. The tourniquet should go around the injured limb, approximately 2 or 3 inches above the bleeding site. The instructor talked about tourniquets for maybe one minute, and about half of what he said was incorrect. As long as you don't step on them, you shouldn't have an issue. You shouldn't use tourniquets with snake bites. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. My mum's been bitten by a snake. TONY DALY-CREWS: For a snake bite, don't use a tourniquet. This can trap the venom in one spot and damage tissue. Tourniquet ineffectiveness to reduce the severity of envenoming after Crotalus durissus snake bite in Belo Horizonte, Minas Gerais, Brazil. Yesterday, as required for work, I took a six-hour AED/CPR/first aid class from the American Red Cross. Insurance for tough times. A snake's reflexes can still cause the snake to strike up to an hour after it has died.• If you have an encounter with a snake, give it the right-of-way. Also, don’t try to let the venom “bleed out” by cutting marks on the bite with a blade. Abstract & Commentary Synopsis: Tourniquets are not beneficial and should not be used in the initial management of rattlesnake bites. I don't have a lot of experience with this subject, but one key factor that you'll need to remember is to STAY CALM and keep your heart rate down. http://www.amazon.com/review/RSQET9EMO7CL3/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RSQET9EMO7CL3. 8.) Sometimes venom injection from the bite may occur. Have you also noticed the number of range masters / RSOs carrying TQs? You shouldn't use tourniquets with snake bites. Also, this might be hard in the moment, but the more information you have on the type of snake the easier it's going to be for doctors to treat it, so try and get a good glimpse of whatever bit you. In the past 12 months I've seen about 5 snakes on the trails, including some rattle snakes. Here’s what you should do instead. Or if I would even go running... New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast, Press J to jump to the feed. Cover the bite with a clean, dry dressing. I wonder how it would go down if a bitten person had to backpack 20 miles back to the car to get any help.. Lower heart rate = slower spreading venom. The patient was hemodynamically stable, but the entirety of the right leg distal to the tourniquet was discolored. Similar local signs can be seen in viperine bites. For clarity, the retracting arteries and snake bites rule is or is not a myth? The big disadvantage is that it's difficult to use on your own arm. Snake bites: Contrary to what you see in movies, tourniquets should NOT be used on snake bites. I am waiting until after Christmas to order mine at this point. That's probably not the case for your snakes. Great post! The species of snake was unknown. Unless you're very young, very old, or have some sort of other complication, you'll likely have an incredibly shitty and painful time and come out fine. By using our Services or clicking I agree, you agree to our use of cookies. I guess the jury is still out on that one though? Good read. How can you tell if it’s a “dry bite”? I mean, maybe if the limb is already severed but like a cut artery or something just reach right in there and pinch. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, http://www.amazon.com/review/RSQET9EMO7CL3/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt#RSQET9EMO7CL3. Among other topics we talked extensively about using tourniquets, then we had a hands-on demonstration of several brands of tourniquets and discussed the pros and cons of each, how they are carried and deployed, and how they have improved with each "generation" of development. Thanks for posting, lots of great info. Do not raise the area of the bite above the victim’s heart. You receive a patient with a Tourniquet already applied by a non-medic or junior medic… what now? I know a lot of the trails in LA can be spotty with cell sevice, but if you're way out on a trail, it wouldn't be a bad idea to try getting through to 911. The snakebite tourniquet is a way of treating all kinds of venoms quickly by rubbing ground buffalo gourd seeds in the wound while using the tubing to tie off the limb to inoculate against further poisoning. The bite was so severe that Edwards was kept at Vanderbilt University Medical Center until Monday. Author information: (1)Department of Clinical Sciences, University of Papua New Guinea. TL;DR: have a way out and really good medical insurance or don't get bit. Key words: snake, bite, tourniquet, envenomation, venom, envenoming Introduction When a person is bitten by a snake, interventions by others at the time of the bite can in fluence the pathophysiology of the snakebite, the medical management when the patient arrives at … Better avoid getting bit then eh!?! I was lucky enough to play with a rats a cat a softw and swat about a month ago as well which helped me make up my mind on which one i wanted to buy. Their gear is the highest quality. That sucks that your instructer told wrong things. I have heard mixed reviews about Snake Bite Kits and heard that the Snake Bite Poison Line tells you NOT to use these kits because it can do more harm that good. Source: Amaral CF, et al. Just be safe, and remember they're more afraid of you than you are of them -- most animals won't go out of their way to attack someone unless they feel very threatened. Don't run with headphones on trails. If you do get bit, you need to get out of there as fast as possible while keeping your heart rate low. Make sure you're not running with headphones so you can hear if they rattle at you. Butt yeah, a isreal bandage is also a very usefull thing to know. I checked their site but didn't see anything and I'd be keen to take some more in-depth courses. In summer look out for long grass and exposed rocks and if your running is more like Bush walking then wear gaiters. • Immobilize the bitten area and keep it lower than the heart. You're not going to die 10 minutes after getting bit, but don't try to finish your run lol. A recent study showed that when civilians use tourniquets in a serious emergency, it increases the chances of survival almost 600%. NEVER handle a venomous snake, not even a dead one or its decapitated head. Tourniquets and bleeding control took second seat behind more popular skills like CPR for a while. The advice here is great, but as we know as trail runners in LA, cell service can often be non-existent on our trails. Symptoms vary according to the size and species of snake. Cheers! Though those Gartner Snakes babies pop out of no where and scare the crap out of you. If there is no reception, then walking to an area with reception or walking to an area with other bikers, hikers or runners. TQs don't solve the problem, they just buy you time. I learned a lot from it, hope you do too. • Get medical help. Provide them with all the details you wrote down. 6.) What if it cannot be found? The rule of "fuuuuuuck that's a lot of blood". Being educated will help you tremendously. Panicking will pick up your heart rate spreading the venom to your body much quicker. Mike Edwards, 46, was bitten by a timber rattlesnake Saturday while working on his Rockvale farm. Also, I recommend anyone regularly running in an area with wildlife should familiarize themselves with the animals they could possibly encounter. As someone from Western Europe I am not quite sure how I'd feel about running while knowing there are snakes around me. When it comes to venomous/deadly creatures, I will always take advice from an Australian. Pee on it and then get yourself a ride to the hospital. Thank you for posting this. We report a case of snake bite complicated by tourniquet induced ischaemic damage and rhabdomyolysis causing acute renal failure. I'll be in an 18 hour adventure race in Florida this August, and I've literally had the same thought, over and over. There's a big drop off in effectiveness between a proper TQ and one you make yourself with improvised materials. I highly recommend NAR for first aid stuff, I highly recommend NAR for first aid stuff. Mostly just keep your eyes open and be careful. That was way more informative than I was expecting an amazon review to be! Do not cut into the snake bite, that is,do not make incision on the body site of the bite. • Do not drink any alcohol or take aspirin after a snakebite. Absolutely. Last first aid course I took about 3 years ago they recommended not using them because of the risk of losing the limb from cutting off the blood supply and to just apply direct pressure to the wound instead and wait for emergency response. In winter look out for exposed paths and rocks where they can warm up. Try and generally stay calmish and get back to your car to get to the hospital. I asked an EMT at my work the same question that you're asking here, and he said the same thing about snake-bite kits. do not elevate it. Not sure. It's a long read, but contains some good advice from a herpetologist. DON'T risk another bite by trying to capture or kill the snake. He knows what he's talking about. 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